Let's discuss the ethics of political violence?

Workspace actions
Starting question

Let's discuss the ethics of political violence?

Then AI response

The Moral Calculus of Resistance: Ethics and Political Violence

No source links recorded for this answer.

The very foundations of the modern liberal state were poured with the blood of what were once considered illegal insurrections. While we often view "political violence" as a disruption of the social order, political theorist Max Weber famously defined the state itself as a [monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_the_violence). This creates a profound ethical paradox: if the state’s authority rests on violence, under what conditions can individuals ethically use violence to challenge that state? ## The Right to Revolution The ethics of political violence often begins with the "right to revolution." In his *Second Treatise of Government*, [John Locke](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/locke-political/) argued that political authority is a trust granted by the people. When a government becomes tyrannical—violating the natural rights of life, liberty, and property—the "social contract" is broken. > "Whosoever uses force without right, as every one does in society, who does it without law, puts himself into a state of war with those against whom he so uses it; and in that state all former ties are cancelled, all other rights cease, and every one has a right to defend himself, and to resist the aggressor." — John Locke, *Second Treatise of Government* From this perspective, violence is not an initiation of conflict but a response to an existing "state of war" initiated by an unjust ruler. ## Decolonization and Psychological Liberation In the 20th century, the discussion shifted from legalistic "rights" to the psychological and systemic necessity of violence. In his seminal work, *The Wretched of the Earth*, psychiatrist and revolutionary [Frantz Fanon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frantz_Fanon) argued that for the colonized subject, violence was a "cleansing force" necessary to undo the dehumanization of imperialism. > "At the level of individuals, violence is a cleansing force. It frees the native from his inferiority complex and from his despair and inaction; it makes him fearless and restores his self-respect." — Frantz Fanon, *The Wretched of the Earth* Fanon’s argument challenges the traditional ethical focus on "Just War" criteria, suggesting that in certain existential struggles, violence is the only medium through which a suppressed identity can be reclaimed. ## The Pacifist Critique and Strategic Non-Violence Conversely, thinkers like Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. argued that the "means" cannot be separated from the "ends." Ethical political action, in their view, must mirror the world one seeks to create. They posited that political violence often replaces one tyranny with another, whereas non-violent resistance (or *Satyagraha*) exposes the moral bankruptcy of the oppressor without mirroring their brutality. The debate today often centers on the distinction between **political violence** (aimed at structures) and **terrorism** (aimed at non-combatants), as well as the efficacy of violent versus non-violent tactics in achieving long-term stability. *** **To deepen our exploration, consider these questions:** 1. If a state fails to protect its citizens from systemic poverty or environmental collapse, does that constitute a "slow violence" that justifies a physical response? 2. Is there a fundamental moral difference between violence against property (sabotage) and violence against persons? 3. Can a violent revolution ever truly result in a peaceful democracy, or does the method of acquisition inevitably dictate the nature of the new regime?
Then Question · @MayaDarmon

How is it decided that these rights are being violated?

Regarding: "When a government becomes tyrannical—violating the natural rights of life, liberty, and property—the "social contract" is broken."

Select text to highlight passages.

Then AI response

The Arbiter of Tyranny: Deciding the Breach of Contract

No source links recorded for this answer.

Imagine a game where the referee stops following the rulebook but insists their whistle is still absolute law. At what precise moment do the players stop playing and demand a new league? This is the central dilemma of the "social contract": the moment a legitimate government transforms into a criminal enterprise, and the philosophical question of who has the authority to declare that transformation complete. ## The Criterion of "Design" In classical liberal thought, a violation is not merely a single bad law or an unpopular policy. For the social contract to be broken, there must be evidence of a systemic shift in the government’s purpose. John Locke, in his [Second Treatise of Government](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Treatises_of_Government) (1689), argues that the breach is identified through a "long train of abuses." It is not about accidental errors, but a visible "design" to reduce the people under absolute despotism. > "But if a long train of abuses, prevarications and artifices, all tending the same way, make the design visible to the people... they should then rouse themselves, and put the rule into such hands which may secure to them the ends for which government was at first erected." This concept was famously mirrored by Thomas Jefferson in the [U.S. Declaration of Independence](https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript), suggesting that the decision to dissolve a government is a matter of cumulative evidence rather than whim. ## The Judge: Who Shall Decide? The most contentious aspect of this theory is the question of *quis iudicabit*—who shall judge? If the government is the sole judge of its own actions, it will never find itself in violation. If every individual is a judge, society dissolves into the chaos of subjective opinion. 1. **The Individual Conscience:** Locke suggests that because there is no higher earthly authority to mediate between a people and a tyrant, the people must "appeal to heaven"—a metaphor for acting on their own collective judgment and risking the consequences of revolution. 2. **The Hobbesian Dissent:** In contrast, [Thomas Hobbes](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hobbes-moral/) argued in *Leviathan* (1651) that the people *cannot* judge the sovereign. For Hobbes, the moment you grant individuals the right to judge the state, you return to the "state of nature," which is a war of all against all. He believed that even a flawed government is better than the anarchy of private judgment. 3. **The Judicial Framework:** Modern constitutional democracies attempt to solve this by creating an independent judiciary. Here, the "violation" is decided by a court checking the executive or legislative branches. However, when the courts themselves are perceived as part of the "design" of abuse, the question returns to the people. ## The Tipping Point Deciding that rights are being violated is ultimately a collective social realization. It occurs when the gap between the state’s stated purpose (protection) and its actual practice (predation) becomes too wide for the majority to ignore. This leads to a fascinating paradox: the "lawfulness" of a revolution can often only be determined *after* it succeeds, as the victors establish the new legal framework that justifies their prior rebellion. Does the right to decide reside in the law itself, or in the raw power of a populace that refuses to obey? This remains one of the most volatile questions in political science.
Then Question · @MayaDarmon

How does this link to Marxism and class consciousness?

Regarding: "Deciding that rights are being violated is ultimately a collective social realization."

Select text to highlight passages.

Then AI response

The Crucible of Collective Recognition: Marxism and the Birth of Rights

No source links recorded for this answer.

The moment a worker realizes their exhaustion is not a personal failure but a systemic theft is the moment a "right" begins to breathe. In the Marxist tradition, the transition from a mere grievance to a recognized right is not a discovery of a pre-existing moral law; it is a violent, collective awakening known as **class consciousness**. ## From "In Itself" to "For Itself" To understand how rights are realized, we must distinguish between two states of being defined by Karl Marx: the *Klasse an sich* (class in itself) and the *Klasse für sich* (class for itself). A "class in itself" is a category of people who share the same relationship to the means of production—for example, all factory workers who sell their labor for a wage. However, they may remain atomized, viewing their struggles as individual misfortunes or "bad luck." The "collective social realization" occurs when this group becomes a **class for itself**. This is the birth of [class consciousness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_consciousness): the subjective awareness that their shared suffering is the result of a specific economic structure. In this framework, "deciding rights are being violated" is the act of a collective body naming its exploitation. > "It is not the consciousness of men that determines their existence, but their social existence that determines their consciousness." — Karl Marx, [*A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy*](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.htm) (1859) ## The Role of Reification The philosopher [Georg Lukács](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/lukacs/) expanded this by exploring **reification**—the process by which human social relations take on the appearance of "natural" or "objective" things. If a worker believes that a 14-hour workday is simply a "law of nature" like gravity, they cannot conceive of a "right" to an 8-hour day. The collective realization is the shattering of this illusion. It is the social decision that what was once seen as an unchangeable fact of life is, in fact, an adjustable social arrangement. Rights, therefore, are the "treaties" signed at the end of a successful struggle for consciousness. ## Perspectives and Disagreements While Marxists agree that rights are born of collective realization, they disagree on how that realization occurs: 1. **Spontaneity vs. Vanguardism:** Rosa Luxemburg argued that consciousness arises spontaneously through the lived experience of struggle. In contrast, Vladimir Lenin argued in *What Is To Be Done?* that workers, left to their own devices, would only develop "trade union consciousness" and required a vanguard party to bring them true revolutionary insight. 2. **The Bourgeois Trap:** Some Marxists view "rights" with suspicion. They argue that by framing demands as "rights," the working class adopts the legal language of the ruling class, potentially legitimizing the very system that exploits them. ## Questions for Further Exploration If rights are merely the "collective realization" of a class, what happens in an era of **fragmented labor**? As the "gig economy" replaces the factory floor, can a collective social realization still occur among workers who never meet face-to-face? Furthermore, if rights are social constructs born of class struggle, can they ever truly be "universal," or are they always specific to the victor of a social conflict?

Select text to highlight passages.

Continue this thread

This path ends here for now.

Share your perspective, offer an example, or ask a follow-up to continue the discussion.

Other paths you could read

Earlier, at The Arbiter of Tyranny: Deciding the Breach of Contract, the conversation split. If this is not the thread you want, you can switch to one of the other paths below.

Highlights

18 saved passages and connected ideas

Connected ideas

Connected ideas